5 responses

  1. Bret
    April 3, 2018

    LOL. You mean you have to be a philosopher and study for decades to realize people are tribal?

    Yes, I would sacrifice my life for my daughters and I would sacrifice YOU and everybody else in the world for the good of my daughters without hesitation and without remorse. That instinct is so overwhelmingly strong that it matters not one whit if it’s moral or not and any moral framework that doesn’t take that instinct into account is a very, very foolish framework.

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  2. Jack Gardner
    April 4, 2018

    I think the focus should be on giving up of self while seeking group membership. Subverting self subverts integrity and judgment in favor of the group’s values.
    Primarily, with group activities the effort and glory of achievement is dispersed. While in individual activities the effort and achievement is personal; thus, integrity has more value. If a team wins, even those staying on the bench are winners . . . even the fans . . . rationalized glory. Belonging is the primary goal, not the achievement, not the effort put forward.
    However, if a team fails, whose fault is it? Blame can isolate one to varying degrees. Who is not sufficiently committed? If the group is of more value than its members, how much more than its opponents?
    Your personal value or strength of membership is measured by your contribution to the group, rather than personal values.
    That is, the motivation is not to sacrifice for the group, but to earn higher security in the group by being seen to serve it.

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  3. Jack Gardner
    April 4, 2018

    As to altruism, I think the primary thing for understanding its influence is that it does not exist in practice. Because of this, psychologically it is a source of guilt. It is doubtful that anyone is capable of a truly altruistic act; i.e., an act not intended to serve oneself.

    The typical suicide bomber lives in such misery (materially and/or socially) that the promise of rewards and honors in death are attractive. Some suicide bombers are brainwashed or threatened into the act; so that death is an escape more than a sacrifice.

    I would argue that the way psychology works, animal or human, is through evaluation and choosing the seeming best course of action. The evaluation is often confused and wrong, but the choice is intended to serve best.

    Jesus’ self-sacrifice for others gained him nothing but suffering. But that is a mythical story. Well, it did gain him lots of worshipers and glory, if that is of any value. Appears he wanted to save the humans for his own purposes, whatever those are. A little temporary death was the cost. As to Abraham and Isaac, Abraham feared God more than he wanted his son. As who wouldn’t? It is not a real choice.

    In real life, social and material needs require choices. Often confusing choices for which people are ill prepared. Especially, if people believe in mystical influences. But people always choose the course, however seemingly stupid and shortsighted, that appears to be most self-serving.

    The more sophisticated one’s understanding of the world, the more rational one’s values, the more long-range one’s thinking, then the more reasonable one’s choices for one’s happiness – seen as tradeoffs, not sacrifices.

    The basic psychology is the same for everyone, human or animal, but the mental tools and skills vary. We can choose self-harm or loss, but only as a means to a more desired outcome.

    A problem for some is that they have ceased significantly to value themselves. What choice serves what values then?

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  4. Anderson Nascimento Nunes
    April 5, 2018

    Very interesting.

    By the way: the pt_BR version is not available, the site seems to be under maintenance (or, in the worst case, was hijacked).

    Reply

    • Stephen Hicks
      April 5, 2018

      Thanks, Anderson. I will look into it.

      Reply

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