5 responses

  1. IronSig
    March 30, 2018

    “The deformities of the anti-war faction are nonetheless threefold: They underestimate and understate the radical evil of Nazism and fascism, they forget that many “peace-loving” forces did the same at the time, and they are absolutist in their ahistoricism. A war is a war is a war, in their moral universe, and anyone engaging in one is as bad as anyone else.”

    “Indeed, the little matter of democracy is entirely ignored by the self-satisfied Baker analysis. Not only are Britain and America discussed as if they were little if any better than the dictatorships of the time, but we are never even faced with the question of how much force would ever be justifiable in a war to the finish between the pluralist and the absolutist principle (in which the absolutist principle was, lest we forget, rather convincingly vanquished). In much the same way, London and Washington are reprobated for missing chances for negotiation before 1940 but Berlin doesn’t draw the same standard of criticism for its decision to fight on (and to intensify genocide in the east as well as to prolong the misery of Germany) when all was obviously lost.”

    “Just Give Peace A Chance?” (a review of Nicholson Baker’s “Human Smoke) by Christopher Hitchens
    https://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/05/war-baker-churchill-british

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  2. IronSig
    March 30, 2018

    “Even if militaries don’t deliberately target innocent bystanders, they almost always wind up recklessly endangering their lives. If a policeman fought crime the way that “civilized” armies wage war, we’d put him in jail.

    But isn’t pacifism, in Homer Simpson’s words, one of those views “with all the well-meaning rules that don’t work in real life”? No. Here’s my common-sense case for pacifism:

    1. The immediate costs of war are clearly awful. Most wars lead to massive loss of life and wealth on at least one side. If you use a standard value of life of $5M, every 200,000 deaths is equivalent to a trillion dollars of damage.

    2. The long-run benefits of war are highly uncertain. Some wars – most obviously the Napoleonic Wars and World War II – at least arguably deserve credit for decades of subsequent peace. But many other wars – like the French Revolution and World War I – just sowed the seeds for new and greater horrors. You could say, “Fine, let’s only fight wars with big long-run benefits.” In practice, however, it’s very difficult to predict a war’s long-run consequences. One of the great lessons of Tetlock’s Expert Political Judgment is that foreign policy experts are much more certain of their predictions than they have any right to be.

    3. For a war to be morally justified, its long-run benefits have to be substantially larger than its short-run costs. I call this “the principle of mild deontology.” Almost everyone thinks it’s wrong to murder a random person and use his organs to save the lives of five other people. For a war to be morally justified, then, its (innocent lives saved/innocent lives lost) ratio would have to exceed 5:1. (I personally think that a much higher ratio is morally required, but I don’t need that assumption to make my case).”

    “The Common Sense Case for Pacifism” by Byran Caplan
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2010/04/the_common-sens.html

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  3. Doruk Denkel
    March 30, 2018

    It is curious he didn’t expect rape victims to pray for the rapists but he expected European Jews to pray for Hitler. Was that because he believed the world is about suffering and death was an escape or termination of such state? Regardless, he obviously rejected a person as a value to himself. His view of a human being is a spectator of himself and his “condition”, having no value judgement of himself or the world around him. There seems to be some resemblance of Stoicism in Ghandi’s thought.

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  4. Aaron Carine
    June 12, 2022

    Why does the ratio of innocent lives saved to innocent lives lost have to be five to one? Why aren’t all the innocent lives weighed equally? I hope that by “innocents” you are referring to civilians and not Wehrmacht soldiers.

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  5. Aaron Carine
    June 12, 2022

    I don’t think many people would say that murdering a person for his/her organs would be justified if the number of people saved were more than five. Would YOU justify the murder if the number saved was more than five? Anyway, that’s a silly analogy for something like World War II or Rwanda; those were cases of people resisting violence, not initiating the violence themselves because of some benefit they thought could be gained. A better analogy would be “terrorists have seized dozens of hostages in a building. If you know the terrorists intend to kill every one of those hostages, and you can’t prevent it without violence, do you launch an attack that will kill some hostages, but save many more?” I also don’t agree that the French Revolution “just sowed the seeds for new and greater horrors”. The French Revolution is the reason the world has as much freedom as it has now. The Terror also claimed far fewer lives than the Old Regime did.

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